Am I Beige ?

"Matthew Phillips" (flatsidewaysfl) 09/23/2014 at 22:43 • Filed to: None

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Taurus lover, browsing for escapes, and now this. I have always found the 92-01 Camry's appealing. appealing to the point of possible purchase come February.

My Quest is simple, Find a car that is reliable, do not have to Finance,can be made fun, and has ample space for Driver and Passengers.

I have since been looking at JDM imports. I refuse to purchase anything civic or anything corolla past the AE86. I want a Midsizer and since I'm getting help to purchase the car from Family (I'm loved) The Miata is out of the question, I will get one later.

I have resended my notion of no more FWD vehicles in my life, but It's as simple as this. I need a car... I won't settle, but I do know when to yield to my stubborness and listen to reason.

I might buy a Camry, Oppo what am I doing ?

My citroen won't start > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:48

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Why don't you get something Camry-ish, but less boring?

Burrito de EJ25 > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:50

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Make sure it's a manual and you're solid.

dogisbadob > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:50

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You are doing something smart :)

The Camry is an awesome car and doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets. In particular, the 92-96 Camry is the best car ever made.

If you're lucky, you'll find a wagon that has a third seat and two rear wipers!

For more luxury and prestige, consider an ES300. However, the V6 is difficult to work on. And don't forget about the Avalon! A LWB Camry that has even more room, and some of them even have a front bench seat!!!!!! Unfortunately, they're V6-only like the ES300.

If you can find a 4-cylinder 4-door with a sunroof, you will be very happy.

I have a 96 ES300.

GhostZ > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:52

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What you think when you see that Camry:

What it will actually be:

What you should buy instead:

or:

Matthew Phillips > Burrito de EJ25 09/23/2014 at 22:52

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I....Can't... drive stick...

My dad can teach me, but that requires hime to drive until I'm fluent. The last time he drove stick it upset his back injury sooooooooo.... I'll learn stick under my own accord and time.

Doug DeMuro > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:54

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I always loved that era Camry too, but only the one you posted — the coupe with alloys. Specifically in red.

FYI the wagons of that gen had TWO rear windshield wipers. No idea why.

Steve in Manhattan > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:54

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If this is your car, at least get the fun version ; there must be a coupe or convertible out there somewhere with your name on it.

Matthew Phillips > GhostZ 09/23/2014 at 22:55

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I love you, but I'm scared of owning an AWD car until I have more funds for future drivetrain repairs.

I'm not financing an iS.....

GhostZ > dogisbadob 09/23/2014 at 22:57

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The Camry is an awesome car and doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets. In particular, the 92-96 Camry is the best car ever made.

This is a pretty big stretch. The 1983-1988, and the 2007+ Camry are objectively bad cars by today's standards, for the price. (80s ones because they're too old to be considered reliable transportation anymore). It definitely deserves some of the hate. Maybe not all, but only because there's an absurd amount of hate.

And it is definitely not the best car made. By any measurement. I'll agree that the 92-96 Camry (and even 96-2007) are good, reliable cars, but it's downright misleading to say they're anything beyond that.

Matthew Phillips > My citroen won't start 09/23/2014 at 22:58

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If I buy a Honda it's either going to be a Prelude, TSX, or TL.

Burrito de EJ25 > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:59

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You take a day to learn the basics and then you build muscle memory from then on out. It might be a rough couple of days on your own, but you'll get there. Learn by doing it. It's not something that you need to take a multi-day class on.

I bought a manual transmission car without prior knowledge of how to drive one. My dad took me out one day and (badly) explained the basic idea. I took surface streets for a bit, but I got there.

GhostZ > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:59

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What's your actual budget? Why would you need to finance an IS? They're pretty cheap used. (Ebay has them listed around $7500, definitely not in the finance range in my book, but I'm not sure what kind of money we're talking about).

Also, if you want a full sized RWD car that will be dirt cheap to own and super-reliable, America has you covered:

Which is what I would get in your case, although you seem to be pining for something Japanese (and slightly smaller).

GhostZ > My citroen won't start 09/23/2014 at 22:59

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Oooh. Didn't think about this in my recommendations. This is a good choice.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 22:59

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My girlfriend had a '98 Camry LE V6 with the 4-speed auto and it actually was a pretty fun to drive.

That is until the engine blew up...

She has an '02 Taurus now and it isn't nearly as fun.

CRider > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:01

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Am I crazy for suggesting a first gen CTS-V? Low teens in price and 400 hp if I remember correctly. It's a gas guzzler but YOLO, right?

Matthew Phillips > GhostZ 09/23/2014 at 23:04

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ooooooh boy.... I love me some Panther you have no Idea. I'm most likely going to have around $1200 (Pre Tax return)by february saved, then some. so with my family combined I should have $2500 of wiggle room.

I live in Northern Va, I can't afford to feed one of these. I've asked all my friends who own one.... I..... woo boy.... sexy sexy....

Frankly it's also too much car for a single 21 year old......

GhostZ > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:05

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Do you need a car?

Because on that budget, I'd keep saving until you can get a panther and budget it for gas.

And honestly, parts for those cars will be cheap enough to offset the cost difference from the Camry for the fuel economy.

dogisbadob > GhostZ 09/23/2014 at 23:07

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No, it isn't.

Toyota's entire lineup from the early-to-mit-90s is simply untouchable. everything from the Supra and LS400 down to the cheap-ass Tercel, and also the tough-as-nails trucks. The 80s Toyotas are NOT "too old to be considered reliable transportation anymore" Are you used to American and German cars by any chance?

90s Toyotas like the 3g Camry simply last forever, and everything about them was well-made. Has that feeling of being all made out of one piece that German car fans like, but with legendary 90s Toyota reliability. Feels like a fucking vault. Serviceability is also very reasonable provided you stay away from the transverse V6's that can be difficult to access.

The 97-on Camry, and Toyotas since the late-90s are still good cars, but you can tell they started doing some cost-cutting shit that the older cars didn't have. With the 3rd-gen Camry and the other Toyotas from the same era, nothing was compromised, and they gave it their ALL—cars and trucks that were obviously designed by engineers.

The new Camry just isn't as good as the ones from 20 years ago. even Toyota doesn't make them like they used to :(

The 92-96 Camry/ES300 could be a "why your car sucks" article

Burrito de EJ25 > CRider 09/23/2014 at 23:08

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Yes because he is looking at cars worth around $2500...

Matthew Phillips > GhostZ 09/23/2014 at 23:11

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Yes and no, I travel to two different campuses for my school that's about 18 miles apart. I lose three hours one way in my commute back and forth from where I live and where i go to school.

I also see alot of heavy traffic in my commute, being near Dc and all. I can't fathom the 14-17 I would see..... Plus with it's near 20 gallon fuel tank.. I Can't afford that at all.

The only bad thing about my Taurus was the fact it burned through fuel like water, and I hear nothing but good things on Jdm fuel economy from my friends. I'm thinking with my wallet at this point.

dogisbadob > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:11

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The 96-98 TL is a cool car, even more underrated than the Camry. Plus, the V6 is longitudinal, so it's MUCH easier to work on than the ES300! Sometimes I wish I had gotten one instead of my ES300.

The OG TL was also available with the Vigor's I5.

It is also exempt from the Used Honda Tax.

Matthew Phillips > dogisbadob 09/23/2014 at 23:12

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I got to sit in my co workers, and it is on my list. I had no clue the V6 was longitudinal.....

Makes a guy think

My citroen won't start > GhostZ 09/23/2014 at 23:16

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And if you want to go even deeper.

GhostZ > dogisbadob 09/23/2014 at 23:17

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The Westboro Baptist church should hire you.

I will just choose to disagree with pretty much everything in your post, but it's not worth arguing about. If 92-96 Camry's get you going, go for it. Just be more accurate (and less absolute) about your devotion.

As for the 80s Camry, I have no doubt they were decent cars in their day, but now all of them are starting to rust, and there's not many on the road (much less for sale) that aren't dented, over 150k miles, or otherwise abused. It makes them bad purchases beyond maybe a winter beater.

syaieya > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:33

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I've actually had someone in Central VA looking for a vehicle at around that caliber and price.

The short list that I've come up with is Integra, ES300, SC300, FWD Impreza, Lancer.

If you really wanna keep it right wheel drive you can prolly swing an old Volvo or even a Mercedes for that price if you're smart about the junk yard and do a bit of reading.

I picked up a W210 E320 for 1500 last october and aside from a few things that I took care of that were just pet peeves of mine (warped rotors, rusted fender, cracked bumper, oil leak, little stuff that doesnt actually change the fact it's moving) It's been a fairly cheap vehicle. I'm honestly not out too much to get it running with two oil changes, a set of pads, and fixing a hiccup in the AC.

GhostZ > My citroen won't start 09/23/2014 at 23:35

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GhostZ > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:40

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1. Why the hell are you commuting so far for school?

2. Traffic would be a concern.

But do not make your purchases based on what you've heard from friends . Make them based on facts.

Purchase Price of a 1995 Camry is about $2200. The coupe is probably going to run you $3000+, for rough condition, because they are rare .

I'm assuming you have a 1995 Taurus, or around that. Sale on that is going to be ~$2500 depending on it's condition. Crown Vic is probably just around the same price as the Camry, less if you get it at an auction.

So you're already $500 in the hole, unless you can get a good deal.

The EPA rates a 1995 Crown Vic at 17/25. The 1995 Camry is 23/31 at most.

Assume fuel is $4 a gallon, and you drive 20,000 miles a year. (about 60 miles a day on weekdays, less on weekends). Let's assume 70% of it is city, 30% is highway.

Crown Vic: (17*.7) + (25* .3) = 19.4mpg

Camry: (23*.7) + (31*.3) = 25.4mpg

Taurus: (assuming 1995 also): (18*.7) + (27*.3) = 20.7 mpg

For 20000 miles, your fuel cost is:

Crown Vic: (20000 / 19.4 )* 4 = $4123/year

Camry: (20000 / 25.4 )* 4 = $3149/year

Taurus: (20000 / 20.7 )* 4 = $3864/year

So in other words, the Camry is going to be cheaper if and only if:

Repairs and insurance increases are less than $973/year ($81/month)

First thing I would do is call your insurance and ask them to quote you on a 1995 Camry two-door coupe and see what the difference is. If insurance costs more than say, $50 more per month, it is not worth it because that leaves you only $31/mo savings on fuel. That $31 is probably going to be eaten up in fees in cleaning, buying, and putting plates on the new car.

And then it would still take you 6 months to earn back the $500 you spent on the car in the first place.

This means you could be looking at a year before you break even and start reaping that ~$500/year savings.

By comparison, if you just moved to a location that was 1/3rd the distance closer you'd instantly make that savings back up in fuel costs without having to buy the car at all.

Insurance on the Camry might be more expensive, because it's smaller, 2 doors and not American. That's the unfortunate reality.

GhostZ > dogisbadob 09/23/2014 at 23:42

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Also I think it is a tragedy that there are so few pre-1997 Camrys on the road or for sale. I'd recommend them more if they were more available and not in a buyer's market.

dogisbadob > Matthew Phillips 09/23/2014 at 23:56

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One more thing: the 2.5TL and 3.2TL are actually completely different cars forward of the windshield. Different front ends, different front suspension, etc. The I5 has 4-lug wheels. The V6 has 5-lug.

The 2.5's suspension has more options and better compatibility with other Hondas. The V6 has little to no suspension options.

computiNATEor > Matthew Phillips 09/24/2014 at 02:43

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I actually daily drive one of these! Mine is a 95 sedan V6 LE with 220k miles. Things to watch out for:

Keep that paint clean! The clear coat will crack if you park it in the sun without washing the car often (like anything from the mid-90s). Also look at the chrome trim on the windows where it is painted black to make sure it isn't chipping, and check the yellowing of the headlights. Also look for wear around the top of the steering wheel from sun damage; though most other interior pieces have held up very well. These are all signs of it being parked outside. Ask me how I know...

The 1MZ-FE V6 will EAT valve cover gaskets; it isn't really a problem until some gets on the exhaust and stinks up the cabin.

Mine went 210k on the original starter and alternator; both failed within a month of each other (probably because it sat for 2 months before I started to drive it).

I think the 95/96 models look nicer because they don't have that giant taillight bar; also, they have fewer taillights total.

The trunk is huge, especially for something this small, and hides a full-size spare!

It's pretty quiet, though wind noise does become quite pronounced above 50 or so.

The engine has quite a pleasing intake note. The power picks up noticeably around 3,700 or so, and pulls strongly until about 6,000. Any further than that and more noise is made than speed. It's very forgiving and very linear, and produced around 180hp when it was new. Lots of power for a tiny car (by modern standards).

The steering feel is actually quite good, though it is so light I can turn the car with my pinkie. It conveys the limits well, though the car does feel particularly nose-heavy. The front and rear don't feel like they are working in harmony unless the fuel tank is full; there is a noticeable change in ride quality. Be careful braking from high speeds (80+) in corners; the rear will get light and start to pass the front. There is a very small amount of torque steer; only in first gear, and only if the front tires run across a groove does it squirm. Otherwise it just pulls gently to the right.

The brakes really aren't suited to repeated canyon runs or track use; they heat up a lot, but never quit, though the pads squeal like crazy after they cool. When braking from 100+ mph, expect to hear a loud thumping as the rotors warp (thankfully not permanently). Mine doesn't have ABS, but because the XV10 is relatively light, it stops just fine. Just listen for the tire squeal.

I have maintenance records dating to 97, when my aunt purchased the car, but I also know it has been in two accidents, both minor. Check the exhaust hangers, and eye the struts for overspray. Get down in front of the car and check the condition of the plastic splash guards.

The transmission has a specific frequency between 40-50 miles per hour. I think this is normal. Around 80, the engine will be turning at 3,000 RPM, and it hits the fuel cutoff at something like 6,500. The transmission will automatically upshift at the redline (6,250; when in D), but I have had no issues taking it to the full 6.5. The 4-speed auto transmission is fine, but it will upshift when you take your foot off the gas unless you've moved the lever to a lower gear. Generally, when I'm driving in a canyon, I will stick it in "2" and leave it there. Ratios are as follows: 1st -> 40mph. 2nd ->80mph. 3rd->100mph. 4th ->I haven't been above 120 or so yet. Probably for the best, as my tires are only rated to 126mph.

The gauges are all mechanical, which is nice. Just make sure they work!

The AC is great (at least on mine). I still have the factory refrigerant in the car. The heater doesn't really work at all until the car is warmed up, and the engine will be drastically down in power on cold mornings.

The radiator will probably need replacing every 100k miles or so. I think it still has the factory water pump at 220k!

The radio is decent, though like any older system, there is a distinct lack of bass until the volume is really cranked up. I use a classic AUX-cassette tape adapter. Works without a hitch. However, what does fail is the power antenna. The plastic extending gear tends to break, though it is pretty easy to take apart yourself and replace it with a $15 part from Pep Boys. Honestly, the radio reception is pretty good (well, I do live in SoCal, with strong radio signals) even with the antenna fully retracted. The fade/balance and treble/bass knobs are likely to pull out, leaving the exposed metal root and no way to adjust the treble or fade without tiny fingers or a pair of needle-nose pliers.

There are a couple of strange omissions from the interior; there are no map lights, and the driver doesn't get a visor mirror. The front cup holders, while serviceable, block access to the radio controls and the drawer behind them, and the right one must be emptied of cups before the transmission lever can shift into park (unless you don't mind knocking the drink over). There are no rear cup holders; just a fold down armrest. Rear knee/legroom is modest, especially if someone sits behind someone who is more than 5'10" or so. Rear foot room, though, is great, as the front seats are about 4 inches above the floorpan, so the person in back can slide their feet under the front seats.

I hate hubcaps, so a set of 94 Avalon 7-spoke wheels is on the car. I think they look great, and they don't have that chintzy aftermarket look to them.

When I drive like a maniac (I deliver pizzas), I expect 16 mpg. If I drive carefully, I will get around 18 city, 25-ish highway, depending on how fast I drive. 55-65 seems to be its most efficient speed.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Matthew Phillips > computiNATEor 09/24/2014 at 05:22

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This sounds like a Japanese Taurus with better fuel economy and a tad more power :)

When I get closer to purchase I will try to remember.

Matthew Phillips > GhostZ 09/24/2014 at 05:26

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My Insurance won't be a problem, I'm paying $83 for my late Explorer and I paid $65 for the taurus, I think the Camry will be in that ballpark.

I set my class schedule because at the time i had a vehicle and by them time the vehicle failed it was to late to re arrange my schedule, but i set it up with wiggle room to take public transportation if the vehicle fails... as old cars tend to do. But it was a Temporary wiggle, not intended for a full semester.

jkm7680 > syaieya 09/24/2014 at 07:50

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In Northern VA a Teggie will get stolen before you can say "Ricer."

El-Verde > Burrito de EJ25 09/25/2014 at 17:48

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Haha, judging by your photo, we may have learned on the same car.

I watched YouTube videos, then picked up my brand new ordered 2011 WRX from the dealer. Made it out of the lot without stalling (Yes!) and to the first red light, where I promptly stalled (No!)

It's not that hard. A few awkward days and you'll be good to go. Especially in an older Camry or something...you won't hurt it learning.

El-Verde > GhostZ 09/25/2014 at 17:50

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IS300 is a money recommendation here. Such a great little car.